ComingSoon Editor-in-Chief Tyler Treese spoke to The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent director Tom Gormican and co-writer Kevin Etten to discuss the meta-comedy, which is out now digitally and on 4K, Blu-ray, and DVD. The pair discussed the hyper-specific script they worked on, how working with Cage surpassed expectations, and more.
Tyler Treese: Tom, can you talk me through the creative process of writing this? There are so many great references to Nic Cage’s career, and I know you’re already a fan, but how many films did you re-watch while doing this?
Tom Gormican: We re-watched the greatest hits and the ones that I think were most meaningful to us, that basically illustrated the breadth of Nicolas Cage’s performances. It was like Valley Girl, Moonstruck, Wild at Heart. And then his action periods of Face/Off and the Con-Air and then Adaptation, I think Raising Arizona was in there. So we just wanted to show that Nick can do anything. He can be a romantic comedy hero. He can be a comic figure, like in Raising Arizona, he could be an action star, he can be all these different things. And that was the point of us writing this script, was to try to showcase Nic’s talent.
Kevin, this film just really wouldn’t work with any other actor. So when you both were working on such a hyper-specific project. I know Nick was hesitant to sign on at first, and there’s no backup plan to be made. What’s it like when you’re working, putting so much hard work into something, and it could blow up so easily?
Kevin Etten: We had a friend who said to us after he read an early draft of the script, he said, “as a strictly business decision, this is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever seen.” But we were pretty committed to the idea of this being Nic. And I think something that kind of kept us going was that when we would tell people about the project and we would share the project, in its very early stages, everyone had the same reaction that we did when we think about Nic, which is that you smile and you’re happy. And he’s a figure and an actor and a character that people just love and want to see succeed. And they want to see him doing the best work he can do because, … what we’ve said is that when we sat down to write it, we were talking about Nic and thinking about who he is as a guy. I think what is inspiring about him is that as an artist, he doesn’t really seem to give a shit [about] what anybody thinks about him, he kind of does whatever the hell he wants. And that’s an increasingly unique trait in today’s Hollywood.
Tom, I love that this film just shows so much respect towards Paddington. It’s so fun because people love it, but there is that film snobbery where they just don’t want to give it the credit it probably deserves. So do you love Paddington too? As much as Javi does?
Tom: Yeah, of course. Kevin and I do, and we’ve said, as much as this film’s a celebration of Nicolas Cage’s career, it’s also a celebration of movies, making things, and the creative process. So, [it’s] a celebration for us of all of those things together. And yes, we love Paddington. It’s incredible. It’s a perfect film.
Kevin: Paddington really does not … there are no wasted moments. Everything is firing on all cylinders in that movie. The first time I kind of heard how great it was, I had a friend that called me and said, “we saw Paddington 2.” And he said, and this is a 38 year old man. “I cried through most of it, and it made me want to be a better man.” So I was like, “oh damn. I’ve got to go check it out.” He was he was not lying.
Kevin, just thinking about this project, it’s almost like the most extra extravagant fan fiction, but you somehow made it into reality. How surreal was it when you both got on set and you saw Nic Cage acting out being Nick Cage?
Kevin: It was very surreal. And we said as we were going through the process and writing and trying to push it forward and trying to get it into the right hands … at a certain point, we said, if we could just have lunch with Nic Cage, if that’s all that comes out of it, that’s really what we wanted. We had spent so much time thinking about who he was as a man. So then to finally … our first meeting with him was, and Tom, please jump in here.
Tom: I think the point of it is that it’s surreal, but Nic Cage delivers the Nic Cage experience, right? For the first time we go to have lunch with him, it’s at a Pacific Dining Car, rest in peace Pacific Dining Car, downtown Los Angeles. And we walk in, and he looks at us and he goes, “well, this is where Humphrey Bogart used to come and drink martinis when he didn’t get a role.” And you’re like, first of all, Humphrey, Bogart never didn’t get a role. He was the only actor, right? But Nic loves the lore. He loves the story more than anything else.
And we sit down with him and we have lunch, and he just wants to make sure that we’re not like making fun of him with this project. Like anyone would want to know and we start to get into it, and that’s surreal. Then you get on set, and we’re doing a table read the week before we start shooting and it’s on a Zoom because of COVID and these things turn on and there’s Nicolas Cage in a pink leather motorcycle jacket with Superman patches on it and giant glasses. And he’s memorized the entire 125 page script. And the other actors are just simply in awe. And you’re like, “yes, the guy delivers the exact experience you thought you were going to get.” And that’s the point of that.
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Tom, I imagine it would be so crushing if he didn’t live up to expectations after all this build-up, but clearly, he surpassed them.
Tom: You have no idea. Like he surpassed every expectation you’d want to have from being a collaborator who says things like, “I know that my job is to get you exactly what you want, but just allow me to do a couple of things that I want first.” And you go, “okay, great!” He never, ever made me feel like any less of a director than anyone he’s worked with, which is a murderer’s row of directors, you know? So all the people I idolize, and that’s a choice Nic makes, he doesn’t have to do that, but it’s one of the beautiful things about working with him.
Kevin, in regards to this film, a lot of the press and build-up to it seemed like Nic was getting his flowers and getting this respect that he really deserves. How exciting is it to see your film be this vehicle for everybody to realize, this dude’s awesome, and his films have touched us in so many ways, and to see this be a big celebration?
Kevin: So fulfilling. That was one of the things, when we set out to make a project was that we were like, we need people to understand and to remember the kind of incredible talent he has to do literally every genre of a movie, from action to horror, to comedy … like he really can do it all. So that was incredibly fulfilling. And one of the most surreal moments I will tell you, is that when we premiered the film in Austin at South by Southwest, it’s a packed crowd, Nic is there, he’s sitting right behind us. And then, at the end of the film, in the film, they give him a standing ovation. He looks around and then we had in the film, you get the standing innovation, it’s like the movie’s playing out in real life and they’re going nuts for [him], so that was just bizarre.
Tom: It was an additional level of meta.
Kevin: Yeah, totally. One of the best nights in my life. I said, “I never want to see the movie again with another crowd” because Austin, they just love him so much.
Tom: I will say this too, if I can add something to Kevin’s point about Nic getting flowers, one of the most interesting things about this project is the fact that Nic is willing to give a warts-and-all performance, especially at the beginning of the film, he’s talking about his financial difficulties, his family problems. And some of them are real, some of them aren’t, but they’re definitely things that people go through. And he’s willing to talk about those things. That’s what makes Nic, Nic, because very few people are willing to have any kind of perspective on themselves. And even fewer amounts of people are willing to do that on a giant screen in front of everybody, you know? And so that takes courage and it’s the beauty of Nic.
Kevin: Absolutely. Tom is right. And I’d say one of the other enjoyable things that we’ve been witnessing and have been told about is that in addition to getting his flowers, we’ve literally had people from all ages, whether they’re Nic Cage fans who are like, “I actually went back this weekend and rewatched, you know, like a bunch of Nic movies,” or the younger … we’ve given talks at USC, where they were like … they basically only know Nic from like National Treasure, and they’re now digging into his catalog of films and realizing what he can do. So that’s been really cool to go, “oh man. Yeah. People are like actually going back through the films and remembering.” So, yeah, it’s been awesome.
Tom, you spoke about how Nic has this amazing ability to poke fun at himself. When you’re getting scenes with him, you know, the whole Nicky Cage character inside his head and we get the Nick Cage smooches good line, which killed me. Are you ever surprised that he’s not saying no to these ridiculous scenes?
Tom: Well, I’ll tell you what, “Nick Cage smooches good” is a line he came up with, right? And by the way that scene, he was supposed to kiss him on the cheek. And he is like, “Tom, Kevin, I need to speak with you for a minute. I got an idea.” And you’re always like, “okay, this is going to be good.” And he’s like, “I think Nick should French kiss Nicky.” I never would’ve pitched that to Nic, because I would’ve thought he would kill mem right? And be like, “no, you’re taking advantage of me.” That’s his idea. And then he’s like, “I got an idea for a line too. I’m going to say ‘Nick Cage, smooches good.'” That’s what you get from Nic that you don’t get from any other actor where you’re like, “That’s fucking insane, but it’s incredible at the same time.” We were just like, “Well, yes!” That same scene he had just finished a 14-minute long fuck, as he’s going, “Nick fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuckin’ Cage,” also his idea. He just did that. I didn’t know it was coming. We say “action.” The line is written, “Nick fucking Cage” he does that. He came over afterward and he looked at both of us at the monitors and he goes, “I wanted it to be transcendent.” He’s delivering the Nic Cage experience to the next level.
That rocks. It sounds like the scenes in the film evolved over time with Nic’s input. I’m sure that, just as a creator, being able to iterate on these ideas was so rewarding.
Tom: Yeah. He’s into it and he knows. We would always argue about … I would tell him what the best Nick Cage is, and I would say, “I know the best Cage,” and he’d go “You can’t! You can’t know the best Cage!” And I’ll be like, “no, I definitely know the best Cage, it’s this.” We’d eventually just start laughing and he’d be like, “all right, I’ll do that thing,” or “Let me try this. I think I would do this.” and I’m like, “Ugh, I don’t know.” It’s funny, because you’re arguing about like the real version of the character that we created, Nick Cage, you know? And he would say all the time he would come over and go, “Hey Tom, there’s a guy who lives in Las Vegas who wears rings and leather jackets. And he wouldn’t say that line.” So I’d say, “oh you mean you?” And he would go “well, yeah.” And I’d be like, “well, it’s not you.” And he would go, “well, it’s my name!” And then “Alright, I’ll just say the line.” It’s very funny, very strange experience.
Kevin, there are so many great homages to his past work and we see a lot of memorabilia. Did you have to clear anything or does it fall under fair use for parody? How did that work?
Kevin: This is a better question for Tom, actually, but my understanding was that we were able to clear almost everything that you see in the memorabilia room. The only thing that we couldn’t really clear was Paddington 2. We couldn’t show a clip from Paddington 2. So you never see Paddington 2. You just kind of imply that they’re watching it.
Tom: Yeah, you can’t show a PG movie in an R-rated film.
Kevin: That was the issue there, but everything else was easily clearable. And the other studios really played ball with us and, when they heard what we were doing, let us use anything we wanted. That process was relatively painless.
Tom: Not inexpensive, but painless.
Tom, I thought the timing of the release was perfect because he had Pig the year prior, which was so celebrated, and this just seemed to cap off this renaissance for Nic. How great is it to be that film that propels him back into these big, in-theater pictures?
Tom: That was very cool for us. You feel a huge sense of responsibility to the guy, bigger than I thought it would be when we set out writing it, to just make something that feels true to the real person and respects him. You’re always worried about what your actors think. When your actor’s playing himself, it becomes a bigger thing. I really was so nervous about whether or not he would like the film, and for him to call and be like, “I love it,” meant the world. And so to see him have this thing come out in theaters and people remember what they loved about him or be reminded, is very cool. To be part of his resurgence is awesome, because we were right there, seeing it all along.
Kevin, I love the film’s approach to meta-comedy, and there’s so much great action. The fan reception has been so overwhelmingly positive. Talk me through this fan reception and how rewarding it has been to see this very niche meta-comedy succeed on such a wide level.
Kevin: It’s been super rewarding. I think also when we started the project, it was that thing where people are going, “wait, what are you guys doing? You’re writing a movie for Nic? You’re spending six months out of your life to try to write this insane meta-comedy, where it changes from this little drama and becomes a buddy comedy and [then] turns into a big action-comedy?” We met with a fair amount of skepticism, so to actually see it work is incredibly fulfilling. And with the meta stuff, it’s interesting. We’ve found that you have to really find the balance of how much an audience can take, because when they start to feel that you’re … when they can feel the writer’s hand being overly clever, it takes you out. But they also like it, you know? It’s fun. So a part of the dialing and the amount of self-awareness … it was a fun ride all the way through.
